Community post

Does @valueplan spending impact the price of HIVE, and by how much?

Looking at data to answer the question: Does the @valueplan spending impact the price of HIVE, and by how much?

While this video was uploading, I realized that the last time I made a video was during the hostile takeover. So I guess it takes an existential threat for me to make a video.

So yes, I do think it's important and I hope you will engage with the topic so we can collectively figure out what we want to do. This is not simply about money (money comes and money goes, arranging one's life may be the bigger challenge), it's about the very clear trend of HIVE going to near-zero.

I'm not concerned about HIVE's price going down due to the market. If the crypto market completely collapses, so be it (although I think it's going to keep growing). But I am concerned about Hive disappearing from the scene while the crypto market continues on (with completely usual ups and downs).

So what's your take on this?

(I should also mention I have absolutely no interest in witchhunting, and I personally am not against the @valueplan projects and I'd vote for them if I didn't think the involved expenses impact the price very significantly.)

Spreadsheet link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WgvuTh0AnL3RNb7hpn8jBgq4hg2i-FnbcnK-wJVtVEg/edit

▶️ 3Speak

Replies (54)

I appreciate your diplomatic approach Boris, and I happen to share your tactics as a preference. I think this conversation we are having, both here and in MM needs to continue.

It's as you say, its not about witch hunting. I'm not pointing fingers and calling people enemies or anything of the sort. I'm simply saying, and this is really the point we must be able to agree on, that we cannot continue to spend right now. The price is not helping.

I know that GP, and he means it, is of the idea that VP is small potatoes, and that these expenses won't really make a dent. But, the data you are showing here, at the very least shows a very tight correlation between these two things.

Now, I'm going to make the logical flaw of equating correlation with causation, but at the same time, we can't pretend everything is peachy because its not.

Now, I realize there's a downward spiral that can happen if we kill all things that VP is doing, which is, to be perfectly clear, something I'm not advocating for. But when things are not going well in a household you make adjustments.

At this moment, my finances are in the trash, so I'm eating at home, and most days canned food. I could say spending a little bit more won't kill me, but I'm trying to slowdown my spending, as to have reserves for real emergencies.

Where do I see things going if we keep on this path. To me, there are two possibilities, and I don't know which one is uglier.

We do nothing

We toss the coin into the air and wait for something to happen.

We could get lucky, an app could pickup momentum, maybe a world tragedy gives us an edge, because we don't censor. Something.

I would call this choice the "prayer to the sky" - And one that I think people feel too comfortable with. I personally don't, having all my patrimony on chain.

If we crash, if we burn, whatever infighting might be happening right now, will be child's play. There's a chance we will end up seeing a fork, people will accuse other people of attacking the chain with their choices. I mean, the word ugly does not cut it.

We do something.

We make a compromise. Maybe we reduce outflows to programs that we are currently running as to give some breathing room to Hive. We are out of buyers, as the traders would say. So, the little buyers that we have, which may even be us, hiveans, need to not get dunked on so hard right now.

It could be that it doesn't really help much, I'll grant you that. But in the worse case, we are still slowing down the bleeding, the dilution of our stake.

I also realize, there's a political cost to be paid for those who bring up these subjects, and I certainly don't want to throw mud into a spinning fan. But the alternative is possibly worse, we simply don't know.

So I applaud your approach, and your efforts to make a solid case for a needed change.

We need to get whales to see this video, and to have a real discussion about the current situation on hive. It's not about drama, its not about blowing things out of proportion, its about facts.

The problem in a plutocracy is that the entire Demos can agree on solutions to draining of the economy that profits plutocrats, but convincing the plutocrats that profiting from the plight of the plebs is a problem is unlikely to relieve the exsanguination. We're all tiptoeing around the reality that Valueplan (VP) is voted over the Return Proposal by the architect of The Code(tm). Every account in this thread only exists on Hive at their pleasure. That's why we tiptoe.

However, that deference is without utility to preserve our accounts if the platform faints and collapses because it has been relieved of the burden of it's life's blood. I have read the posts of the whistleblowers credibly alleging fraud and confronted the VP principals demanding they show receipts to demonstrate no fraud occurred. Both GP and LB refused, and LB retorted with such outrage that a child caught with their hand in a cookie jar would be embarrassed.

As a result I have refused to vote any proposal that did not commit to using GAAP (generally accepted accounting procedures - double entry bookkeeping), voted the Return Proposal, and have called for the community to do the same. Marky has a great proposal on the table right now and I implored him to commit to the trivial accounting that would be necessary to allow me to vote for the proposal - which I strongly favor - but he simply stated what the funds would be used for and would not agree to provide the actual ledger. No one else even cared.

That is the only thing we can do as the Demos in a plutocracy to prevent VP from being funded, and that will only work if we all do it. I have been doing it since I learned fraud was alleged and the VP principals responsible to prevent fraud refused to provide receipts, because that's why GAAP exists, to reveal whether an economic entity is doing honest business or not. In this situation our stake is our only voice.

Sound principles underlie sound business, and the failure to stand on sound principles of accounting has become an existential threat to the Hive platform. No one that cares about this issue, and their stake, has to say so, call out the plutocrats, and risk being flagged into penury. All we have to do is withdraw and withhold votes for any proposals that do not commit - and deliver - GAAP and vote the Return Proposal.

Fortunately the chain has preserved the record of the interactions I refer to above, and any that doubt me can prove me wrong if it isn't exactly what I claim. I am certain that almost everyone has understanding of double entry bookkeeping necessary to understand why it's necessary. I bet the majority of us also understand why VP principals have refused to account for expenditures of $M's in DHF funds. None of us should then be surprised that VP has become an existential hemorrhage of Hive's life's blood, nor be unwilling to staunch that flow by voting the Return Proposal.

Except, of course, for them feasting on it.