Well, I think it is the future, that it is a great help and solution for people from countries in crisis like Venezuela (where I am from) or other countries with serious difficulties. Providing a basic and universal income can save many lives, and in my case it has been for a long time, since if I did not have the sponsorship of sbi, long ago I was dead, and did not joke, I really recommend uploading, a reasonable, logical and very safe option, if you use they want to help someone, contribute with sbi shares and they will be guaranteeing you a future.
Basic income is the solution to the world's famine and must be supported, it is the future.

I think SBI is a noble endeavour, and I have used it in the past to sponsor builders.

I like the idea of karmic energy investment in the form of votes!

I think Steem basic income is really amazing. It gives a chance to the plankton accounts that barely get noticed to grow and gain a following. It sure helped me when I was just starting out. Hopefully, governments and organizations can use it as a model to someday implement it in real life since this topic seems to be gaining momentum. Imagine all the people that would be benefiting from universal basic income, especially today now that many businesses are closed and people are out of work. Basic income has the potential to be a real life saver.

ESTM Boosting refund to @circa!
Due to one of these reasons:
1. Not posted from Esteem apps.
2. Already curated by Esteem team.
3. Need bit more improvement on quality of post.
4. Might be too old post.
5. User already received vote in last couple hours, you can try boosting again afterwhile.
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I've had shares of steembasicincome for quite a while now and I've found it to be quite helpful for my account. Some of the people that I sponsored in the past stopped posting on steem months ago, but that it their choice, I guess. I have thought about sponsoring a few people here on Hive, but I hate to sponsor someone only to find out that they've left the platform. In the past, I've sponsored someone in 5 or 10 share increments because it's more effective to their account, and mine, then just doing 1 share. Of course, that's just my personal point of view.
I hope to see Hivebasicincome continue here on the platform.

I agree!

I'm a huge fan.

And for one reason only...Retention.

When people come and feel valued here on HIVE, they will stick around. And SBI allows creators to reward people for producing on HIVE. The argument that even poop content gets rewarded with SBI might be true, but here's the thing...

Most people suck when they first start...Anything. And they will get better at producing content over time, especially if they are supported along the way.

I like SBI a lot and have sponsored many accounts for sbi units. But I’m also a big believer that people can use their stake as they see fit and that downvoting is not abuse. So if the accounts that hate sbi downvote me because I get upvotes from sbi, so be it.

That said, they do seem a bit hypocritical for downvoting posts that utilize the #sbi-skip tag.

SBI program: inorganically rewarding posts because it is voting buying/trading. But it is better regulated than most vote buying/trading. Fortunately, there are limits and abuse is dealt with. So it is worth having around because people see it as good prizes and incentives to blog or post.

Basic Income in general: Welfare and creeping communism. An absolutely disgusting economic model :)

So I ask you, what are your thoughts on the SBI program, and a Basic Income in general?

I think the SBI program is amazing. Back in the 60s or 70s the Trudeau government here in Canada ran an immersive Guaranteed Basic Income program (differs from Universal Basic Income because the gvmnt tops you up to a certain amount). I learned about it when I was studying about food security and gardening. I thought it was pretty amazing. I was really excited to learn about the SBI later on when I got into crypto. I think it's important to give people the tools to earn and feed themselves. We make more than enough food and materials to sustain everyone. I think a Basic Income/SBI would cut out a lot of stress, frustration, anxiety, and fear.

I always thought SBI was a good program, a great incentive and I have not seen evidence that it is readily abused.

I have a question, does SBI plan to continue to operate on the old STEEM?
As I no longer intend to use that chain, I was thinking of gifting my shares to someone still there, if SBI will still operate over there.

UBI is a lie that people who don't understand economics support. There is no such thing as "free money"

As far as I'm concerned SBI is basically just a sophisticated circle jerk and skimming operation. Stay on STEEM pls - don't bring that rubbish here to HIVE.

I love SBI, SBI is one of the things that helped me from the beginning in Steem to grow and support others!
Isn't it possible to make a SBI-Sink account for contests, so the Hive will be sent to the sink who will send the Hive to SBI and afterwards transfer the SBI Shares to the rightful owner? So we can get around the cunts who downvotes people who sends SBI shares?

UBI - Universal Basic Income will work 100% it depends on how its done. If you something like UBI as a safety net,like we have here in Denmark, it would be good. But 100% UBI wouldn't work, if you ask me :D

I still like the idea of SBI especially as we gain new users! We know the curation model will never solve distribution so I welcome things like SBI to help spread the inflation

I think the it would also be cool if tribes got on board and we had buttons on the front end of people’s profiles to make adding subscriptions easier like peakd has but on other front ends

I have been interested in SBI for a while now. Actually just started to read up about it a couple a days ago and tried to get a better picture of how it works and what they want to achive with the program.
I think this is a great opportunity for many on this platform and I also think it could make it easier to attract new people. We want a diverse universe here on Hive with many dapps, products and communities here to make it thrive.

But, I'm here to learn more each day, so if there are any good arguments why SBI is bad for Hive, please comment and tell me why you think its bad. I'm open for any new information.

You can transfer your shares over to hive, if you please. They still run on both chains but you have to chose which one you want to get upvotes on, afaik.

I see SBI in much the same way as I see autovotes. People want to support their favourites and have a return on their investment. But where as autovotes creates a very two tiered system that it is hard to break through, SBI has the potential to bring up the lower accounts.
ON hive/ Steem like we see in the real world money gets money. Obviously the reward pool has big distribution problems and until quality becomes the judging criteria for post rewards I am happy to see these tools in place for the little guy.
I dislike automation in general on Hive or Steem and would like to see quality posts be king but once you are competing with bots I can't see that happening.

I don't think basic income will work out in practice. I consider it non-competitive compared to other systems of distribution. I am happy to be convinced otherwise with empirical proof. It would be nice if it would work ... but i just don't see how.

I consider a low UBI--enough to cover the bare necessities of survival--an intelligent and practical support system, albeit with plenty of ideologically driven detractors.

In an increasingly unequal society, a consistent foundation is essential, while the economy would benefit from the wider distribution of resources.

Hive SBI is not a basic income, because the revenue it gives is (roughly) proportional to the investment. But it's an interesting experiment and I do like the principle of sharing revenue through sponsorship.

It has a few issues. The upvotes do not necessarily reflect the quality of the content being rewarded. Also I would prefer it if the upvotes were more slanted in favor of the smaller accounts/amounts of units.

But overall I am satisfied with how Hive SBI is being managed, and with how its problems are being recognized and addressed. It's good for user retention and a clever way to reward contests and engagement. Thumbs up.

I know there were some users downvoting SBI users back on Steem, but didn't realise they were still at it or even doing it here.

I echo a few of the answers already here. It's a fantastic help for newer users and retention. There is the scope for abuse, but Joseph is generally on top of that. There also seems to be a limit on upvotes for one post, so it's not like you're going to get over rewarding a mediocre post.

The jury's still out for me on whether UBI will work in the real world, though.

I bought SBI shares for people in Steem, but have now taken a refund on that. In principle it's a reasonable idea to give people at least some income from their posts, but really they need to get others engaging with them. Hive needs more manual voting and less of the automoted sort. I made a bit from SBI votes, but it was a small percentage of my rewards.

Downvoting small accounts over this seems petty. We cannot afford to lose them.

I am a fan of SBI, right from the beginning. As mentioned by a few other comments especially the retention of users is key here. If you own some shares you will most probably post more regularly and you will get better over time. I think everybody is free to do whatever he/she wants with his/her stake and can/should downvote low effort posts. However, in my opinion also downvoting should be well curated to efficiently counter abuse and should not solely be done on the basis of using SBI as a service. SBI is a great project and is helping alot especially in the beginning.

There is no such thing as "free money"

So what is fiat? It's specifically a currency without any physical backing and minimal material input. No, it's not technically free - but it is cheap.

The upvotes do not necessarily reflect the quality of the content being rewarded.

That’s also true for many posts unrelated to sbi. 😏

Granted, it does get old:

I like SBI units as a reward for winning in various competitions, because even the organizer of the competition is rewarded. Fifty fifty. I'll get you and me. It is nice.
They say without work there are no cakes. But the basic income to avoid starving if you lose your job is a good thing.

There are two topics in this question: Universal Basic Income (UBI) and Hive Stake Based Income (SBI). First, I'll cover the general idea of UBI, then I'll cover the specific implementation that SBI provides.

The most common version of UBI is a system where everyone will get enough money to stay above the poverty line. Everyone would get this money, regardless of your situation, income or social status. For context, I'm from the Netherlands, a welfare state. We already give a lot of money to the poor, theoretically enough to live from.

There are many differences between UBI and our welfare system though. To start, UBI is a lot easier to implement. All our welfare payments have complex requirements that should be met, while UBI is just a single price paid to everyone. This is also where a con starts to show up. UBI is not flexible at all. It's a no-strings-attached payment. But it does solve a couple of problems we're currently facing, mainly that it doesn't fall away when you start working from unemployment. (If you want to know more, I suggest this kurzgesagt video)

The team of the Hive SBI system claim to have created an implementation of basic income on Steem and Hive. It is not, however, a universal income. Only the people that can afford the tokens will get profit, and the more tokens you have, the more money you'll get. That means that it doesn't solve any of the problems UBI is designed to solve, and it's basically just vote selling. With one big difference.

The sole purpose of most vote selling bots is to play the rewards pool and abuse inflation, nothing else. SBI is slightly different. To get your investment back, you have to spend a significant time on the blockchain, and you have to create content regularly. Many others in this comment section have mentioned it already. It provides an incentive to stay on the platform. SBI encourages you to check back and write a post after a period of inactivity, because you'll have an upvote waiting for you.

While I do think that SBI is a lot better than most other (now dead) vote buying services, I still prefer to see manual curation. That was the original idea of the blockchain, and that's the only way forward for the blockchain.

When governments print money (create new money) to pay out a Universal Basic Income to everyone it causes what's called "Currency Debasement" and effectively steals purchasing power from all the pre-existing holders of that currency via inflation of that currency. In the SBI scenario it takes the future purchasing power of genuine content creators from the reward pool.

Alternatively governments could fund UBI via increased taxation which is a more direct theft of purchasing power - generally from productive members of society.

In more insane scenarios the workers are paying taxes just so the government can give it right back to them in the form of a UBI. It is typical government inserting itself where it doesn't need to be, nor belong.

I don't have a clue how this works. Tonight, i decided to do the SBI, and sent 30 HIVE to SBI and i sponsored my friend Julia. however, i see no changes to any stats, and still don't quite understand how this works.
When i went to check my status, it said my vote value has to increase to .038 (now it's .03). anyone have any answers?

I think it will be refreshed in 2hrs after you made the sponsorship. Both of you will get the sbi points. That's just my understanding though, I haven't been sponsored since then. :D

I sincerely appreciate the thoughtful response, @buggedout. You make good points and the economic dynamics you point out are very real. I don't have a counter to the points you're making, but I would challenge you to reflect more on the fundamental dynamics of fiat currency and the impacts they produce in the modern economy.

I do want to make a distinction between UBI and BI. Where Universal Basic Income is a significant monthly outlay ($2,000/month), and a Basic Income is a scaling amount amount of guaranteed payments - which is what we have here on Hive.

There is an odd paradox in the finance world where that has given rise to the mantra of money is cheap. What does this mean? Well, with the right corporate structure, you can effectively access capital (cash) for free - see the zero/near-zero environment at global central banks. I believe there is a direct correlation to fiat currency and its lack of material asset backing that lends to the overvaluation of equities - creating market bubbles. How can we accurately price companies if the primary resource (fiat) we're using to determine market has no stable materiality. This dynamic explains why basic business fundamentals (profitability, revenue, assets, liabilities and growth potential) are largely secondary in the market. With gold no longer acting as the floor for our currency, we now have to factor in subjective dynamics to better understand currency prices - essentially requiring the USD to reflect the brand value of the United States.

Despite money being free to corporates, at the very same time, economic inequality is increasing at unprecedented rates. Could it be that this dynamic of cheap capital is the root cause of global inequity? I believe that the low growth economic environment is due to economic inequality. How do you expect individuals in the general public to reinvest their money in the economy and start businesses while more of their free cash flow is going towards basic needs. Despite unprecedented technological advancement, leading to the creation of modern marvels like the internet and mobile phones, general income has not kept pace with inflation over the past 30 years. This dynamic is a result of governance decisions made by executives and their boards, who mostly recognize employees as secondary to shareholders - which is known as stakeholder primacy. Most businesses exist to support the distribution of products and services, but the principle priority for any publicly traded company (the biggest companies) is returning value to shareholders - which has little relation to ensuring value for stakeholders.

At the end of the day, economic outlays (government welfare) are going to happen - be it to organizations or individuals, it can't be just one or the other, but there has to be a careful balance. While I do agree that there are potentially significant risks in the creation of a UBI program, I think inaction has a significantly worse outcome. Corporate welfare, cheap money, has been in existence for a while, and the intermediaries (banks) that stand in the way of individuals receiving the same benefits will have to face this reality - as this was the promise of Decentralized Finance.

A consistent UBI, distributed monthly, will create an economically attractive financial signal, allowing governments and economic research institutions view of a financial "heartbeart" - with which they can better understand and predict economic movements on a month basis. It effectively restores the "floor" of the economy by ensuring that economic activity shouldn't go below a certain percentage of monthly outlays.

As it relates to HIVE, I am in agreement with both you and @ctime that the existence of SBI creates the potential of more low quality content receiving a payment, but with the existence of curation teams, I trust that the upvote/downvote system will continue to function the way it is intended, ensuring that quality posts remains at the top. It's counter-intuitive for me to want to support spam, and I obviously want a healthy content ecosystem.

Also, congratulations, you're the first to receive one of the SBI sponsorships! You're welcome to downvote yourself if you feel consistent payments are unfair.

🥰

UBI is evil socialism but doling out trillions to multinational banks and hedge funds is all part of saving capitalism.

I believe crypto/blockchain can solve economic inequality by providing individuals with ownership of their value.
No centralized system can fix this
It's basically good vs evil imo, if you believe we all benefit from our collective freedom, your efforts will reflect that. The inverse is also true, but in a decentralized system financial manipulation and oppression can be eliminated.
Hive is a perfect example of this.
We have the tools to overcome the supposed need for any system to provide for us, we just have to realize and take advantage of the opportunity to free each other and ourselves.
Peace

If a government belongs there or not depends on if the country is a welfare state. The US is not, but many european countries are. For those countries, the simplicity of a UBI might actually save them money compared to the current situation, resulting in reduced taxes.

This is quite a wall of text. I'm not going to write an essay in response, but if you're interested in learning more about economics and the current situation have a read up about the Cantillon Effect

Basically what the US (and other central powers) are doing is throwing UBI type payments at the poor to pay them off, while they simultaneously execute massive bail-outs of the big banks, corporations and even municipal governments. This is classic smoke and mirrors stuff and it's the reason we have growing wealth inequality. Tip - It's going to get worse.

The ones who are really getting screwed are the middle class. The engine of the Western economies. Small businesses are getting destroyed.

I think that a universal income is a good idea. Tests have shown that people that get this make smarter life decisions, focus more on educating themselves and are happier due to less stress.

It is the 1% of the world population that have almost all money in the world that broadcast this propaganda that you are more free if you get nothing, have to work 2-3 jobs to get your children through college, after which they still will have a debt of thousands of dollars. This makes people slaves to the big banks and all in the name of freedom.

I do like SBI a lot, especially that you have to sponsor someone else in order to get something yourself. Also, unless you’re willing to invest a lot at once, which is risky because hive is still a young project, you won’t get massive upvotes immediately. Rather it will slowly build.

Sponsoring someone else is actually what hive is all about. When I vote for some blogpost that has sportstalk as a tag, then my 100.000 sportstalk tokens will give the writer a nice upvote, but half of that will come back to me.

My investment causes me to get a slowly growing stake in that token. Compound interest that only requires my voting to cause growth.

SBI is different here, because it requires me to write a blogpost. My votes will get lost in the sea of votes on this blockchain, but my blogposts will easily be traced back to me. The little SBI votes are for me a small encouragement to keep writing when I get almost no other upvotes. It does that for many people.

In Germany, and especially in Switzerland, there has been a large UBI movement for many years. One could even vote for a corresponding party in the last elections. I myself was an active member of an organization for some years and I worked practically. I also maintained a special UBI-focused blog and wrote about a hundred articles there, all on the subject.

Since a few years there is a UBI project, which regularly distributes a UBI to winners and collects data through donations here in Germany. I am a silent monthly donor there. The inequality you are talking about is something everyone feels very clearly, especially since the 99% movement and the financial market crash in 2008/2009. Since money has become a virtual good and has in principle been made multipliable without hindrance, inequality is threatening because of this principle of unchecked capital.

In principle, we already have a basic income in Germany, but not unconditionally. Even if an UBI were to come, it would not change the fact that unimaginable amounts of capital are in the hands of a few or individuals who do not have to place democratic principles behind their actions and intentions. All this money tempts individual actors to have strange ideas about their own importance in the world. The most dangerous, in my opinion, are those who want to "save the world" or the people. Such people with a lot of money do not have to seek advice, do not have to bring their decisions through committees, do not have to go through a parliament or a council in order to act.

Actually, a restriction would have to be built in, which would introduce an upper limit of capital in individual hands or organisations at all. Without this limit, I am afraid, inequality will continue to exist.

However, an UBI seems to me to be suitable to dilute the inequality a little and to make oneself partially independent of having to take everything that is suggested as a necessity. The difficulty in making a judgement, in my opinion, is that we do not see or know everything that happens on the side of planetary existence that is considered useful.

Instead of overexploitation, the protection of species (animals and plants), instead of unhindered construction and the consumption of resources, a preservation of unused areas and habitats. Waiting and not acting would be necessary in many parts of the world where people do not have to fight for bare existence - i.e. food and water. To reduce oneself to the maximum and to reduce consumption sharply, to live from existing resources instead of always wanting to have the new.

If you are interested, I will give you some German sources, which I hope are perhaps also published in English.

Hello @buggedout,

Your arguments make sense if you consider "government" and "people" as separate systems. Governments can only redistribute through existing concepts financed by taxes and social security contributions. The whole thing is already a big and complex redistribution, no matter what concept or name is written on it.
There is currently no model that would be any different.

So it makes no difference what people say about governments, because this concept of external provision has been going on long before we were born.

All people who do not live in self-sufficiency units (pure agrarian societies) live under the conditions of money distribution, i.e. under the decisions that this money distribution system makes available. There is no other way. If you did not want to have redistribution, you would have to leave the system completely and live a completely self-sufficient life. This is impossible in modern societies.

Since there is already a basic income, but it only has a different name and is linked to certain conditions, the only reason for this is psychological. Not a financial one. Financing can always be achieved if one has the will.

You will never achieve a model by not taking something from you, that much should be clear. To what extent you feel that this is a theft committed against you is a subjective consideration. There are no unproductive people. Just the fact that you have to live and feed yourself, that you have to be mobile, that you need access to modern means of communication, you are already part of productivity, no matter whether you are still in gainful employment or not. Everyone MUST expend energy in order to stay alive, they must be able to feed themselves and move around to get at least the bare necessities. From this point of view, every person who is alive is already productive. If someone were not productive in this sense, he would be dead.

How do you personally want to live? What is your idea of living together?

Hi @circa,

I followed this dialogue with interest and want to contribute my thoughts.

Any form of business that goes beyond the existential into the luxurious is basically a job creation, so that people feel useful in this world and get the assurance that their work makes sense. In many cases, however, this sense is very thin.

This is not dramatic in principle, if we admit to ourselves that most of what we do is basically to pass the time. If I am not concerned with carrying water, planting and harvesting, then I am already on the next level of an existence which, if it were limited to planting and harvesting alone, would find its only meaning precisely in this and would shape its culture in such a way that it would make sense around these activities. We moderns no longer have this self-understanding. A difficult circumstance that throws us back on ourselves. To find a relaxed form of living with one another in such a sometimes rather artificial form of existence - job creation - is a difficulty that we encounter again and again.

How do you expect individuals in the general public to reinvest their money in the economy and start businesses while more of their free cash flow is going towards basic needs

There is nothing wrong with that if I am to fulfil my basic needs.

It is interesting to deal with this question for a longer period of time and to linger for a while asking myself why I actually want to do business beyond my basic needs. Isn't it enough that I have a good roof over my head and enough to eat? Why not?

What else do I need beyond my basic needs? My answer is that I also create culture, that I like to experience art, crafting, music, dance, storytelling and sports activities and being in nature as meaningful. But to turn it into a business? That's the current status quo, isn't it?

So you could look at it like this: the 1% rich must have a very strong interest in making it possible to continue doing business at all costs, because without the many businesses they would miss out on a considerable part of human desire.

A community of people who are completely focused on their basic needs alone are actually a threat for the big business makers in this world. If we just feed and shelter one another and that would be all of what business in terms of money provides for it would weaken big businesses when people do not charge each other for other forms of activities.

It does continue to operate on both chains so that no members are 'abandoned' due to their choice of chain. Each individual can choose for themselves which chain to use and have their SBI transferred cross-chain if they wish to consolidate.

The procedure is covered in the new Hive SBI FAQ.

Every newly enrolled account automatically gets enough pending vote balance for their first $0.02 upvote. After that, your pending vote balance gradually recharges based on your subscription level. Whenever your pending vote balance is high enough to support another upvote, it will be delivered automatically on your next post.

Since only 1/3 of pending vote balance is delivered on any post (to smooth voting distribution and reduce abuse), your pending vote balance will need to reach $0.06 for your next upvote. How long this takes depends on your subscription level and on HIVE price and reward pool behavior.

It would only work for a few days and then the downvoters would figure out the new system and trace enrollments back to the sponsors.

However... there is sponsor:sponsee syntax for enrollments. You could send through blocktrades to @steembasicincome with sponsor:sponsee syntax. There is no way for the attacker to know which name (if either) is the actual source of the funds. If they start auto downvoting based on appearance in blocktrades transactions, then it could be used to indirectly request big mk downvotes on other prominent Steemians (whales?)

I'm not trying to start a war, and have done everything within my power to de-escalate attacks on SBI members... merely pointing out the hazards of automatic DV... which are far worse that automatic upvotes, especially when the downvoter doesn't seem to understand the implications of what they are doing.

Ye properly.

I dont know what sponsor:sponsee through blocktrades means xD But it sounds like a neat way of doing stuff.

I know you have done everything and mk just does wanna listen. Its sad.
And yes is damage done is not good for new people :/

I used SBI for over a year at Steemit; I had delegated a big chunk; here are my thoughts:

• It provides a good return for when you do post
• It provides a good return for other creators when you don't post
• Completely agree with @jongolson; people need to be rewarded to create, or they leave.
• Completely disagree with the "circle jerk" theory; it is technically correct,and functionally wrong. SBI is an investment in the platform. It is not "free money", because there is a price to buy into mutual support.
• Abusers are kicked out of the program. (Digression - I know a lot of ppl complain about quality of posting, but that is subjective; I think that catpic posting and isn't blockchain so cooooooooool posting are complete crap. It's my opinion. But those posts aren't spam. If we get butthurt b/c someone wrote and got rewarded for a post that we ourselves don't like, then we don't have the foggiest clue about what this platform is intended to do - ergo, save the post-hate for spam and plagiarism)

I will be re-delegating to SBI once I go over 10000 HP. Should be within a couple of weeks of powering down SP from justinccp-it

Glad that sbi is in hive too

Hey, thanks for the subscription. Appreciate the kindness.

ok thanks. I don't understand what "pending vote balance" means in this context though.

Upvotes that you have 'earned' from your SBI subscription, but not yet received are stored as a 'Pending upvote balance'.

There's more about it in this article:
https://peakd.com/hive-189312/@steembasicincome/hive-sbi-value-balances-and-upvote-delivery

ok thanks

"That said, they do seem a bit hypocritical for downvoting posts that utilize the #sbi-skip tag."

That could just be due to not understanding the mechanics of what the tag does, or the autonomous system.

I suppose it could be that they're just vindictive, but Hanlon's razor would beg to differ.

I like the concept of basic income, but I'm deeply suspicious of SBI.

I agree with @buggedout in that to me it seems to me that "...SBI is basically just a sophisticated circle jerk and skimming operation.", or at least has elements of those.

I won't be participating any time soon, and I'd also like to know if I can remove the SBI unit I got mysteriously and how.

As far as general basic income, I really don't think it needs to be universal. I also don't think any money needs to be printed. The millionaires and billionaires don't need basic income, and might even be able to fund it with their largesse.

It boils down to eat the rich, pun intended.

Oh, they understand. @mmmmkkkk311 even says use #sbi-skip on his profile page but has repeatedly downvoted posts even when they’ve utilized the tag.

Still could be ignorance, but that definitely stretches it.

It's hard to know if/which were skipped because there'd likely be no interaction. All it would take would be to miss the tag when looking over the post.

Though I'd hope that one would check.

I have no idea how it works and I was getting votes from that sbi1 or was it sbi2-3 I don't know. I didn't ever bother to find out more.

One at a time: I'm a big fan of SBI; it's a great incentive/prize to offer in drawings and contests, and particularly nice as a thing to offer newcomers to the site who are invisible, but might feel encouraged by the fact that they are getting a small vote on their posts. I was gifted quite a few SBI shares in my early days here, and they certainly encouraged me in the early going.

Yes, there seems to be a "downvote brigade" out there but I feel that they are missing an important point: SBI is not an "upvote bot," it's a long-term investment. I remember someone did the math on it over on Steem a while back, and you have to make something on the order of 40-50 posts just to break even. As such, it actually becomes a retention tool of sorts... because why would you partake in something like that if you were going to leave soon? Aside from which, you can't even buy SBI for yourself, you have to sponsor someone else... hence the pay it forward angle. Actually, one of my posts was hit by the "downvote brigade" today, and all I can do is just shake my head! It's a bit like having someone come and slash your tires because you actually have the audacity to collect the dividends on your stock investment. But hey, to each their own...

For the other part, I'm not sure about government sponsored UBI... more inclined to believe in some version that makes companies above a certain size liable for paying part of their savings from automation into a fund to help support workers permanents rendered jobless by automation.

For example, driverless trucks will will put 5-6 million drivers in the US out of a job... but both insurance and delivery services will save billions as a result. Not ALL of that should just be "corporate profits," some of that should go to people (in a collective sense) who were made OBSOLETE.

Part of the problem we face is that few engage in long term thinking. In 40-50 years from now, Humans will only be needed to do maybe 25% of the work that exists today. But they'll still need shelter and to eat. And if they have no means to get money, they won't be able to buy the products being created by the automation. In that context, UBI/BI is not "socialism," but rather "capitalism investing in its own survival."

=^..^=

Thank for for the recommendation, I'll give it a look.

I believe you and I share similar opinions. Bailouts are happening independent of the further welfare programs. Profits are privatized, losses are socialized.

At this point, the question is whether or not there is going to be a safety net or not.

I keep seeing this post everyday.
I didnt get my Hive SBI?
Was my comment not thoughtful enough?
Who decides that?
Just certain commentors get SBI?
Who decides that?
Did you run out of money?
Who got the 5x100 hive?
Did anyone?
Did you run out of money?
What happens to the rewards you are getting from this post?
I think you get my point.

For one to join such programs they need to be well informed .

Both do now just hoping for the best.

Sbi is cool program

Thank you for your honest thoughts. Given your request, I will omit you from the 10 Hive SBI Sponsorship.

If you decide you would like to participate further, please let me know.

This post was promoted, so you likely saw it on PeakD or eSteem. Your SBI sponsorship has just been processed. It's just me managing sponsorships - so I appreciate your patience.

Thank you for participating!

Thanks
I will delegate it to a project that promotes new users.
But you missed the whole point!
If you give a man a fish . . .

It helps keep people here but ultimately, if you have more money to buy more shares, you earn more. Come what may, the rich will still be getting richer. It doesn't add much, and it's absence isn't that much felt. I'm not sure there will be UBI anywhere though.

Thank you for sharing, @erh.germany. You make many good points.

If I am not concerned with carrying water, planting and harvesting, then I am already on the next level of an existence which, if it were limited to planting and harvesting alone, would find its only meaning precisely in this and would shape its culture in such a way that it would make sense around these activities. We moderns no longer have this self-understanding.

I believe you captured it well here.

It is my worry, as an American, that our economic and commercial institutions in our country have lost sight these very vital activities through outsourcing and offshoring to the point that the everyday citizen doesn't understand how their basic needs are met - creating an complex and uncertain environment.

Our largest economic structures are built up around entertainment, technology, finance - which are relatively luxuries - but these tend to fall at the higher end of a pyramid, above and dependent on basic needs.

What else do I need beyond my basic needs? My answer is that I also create culture, that I like to experience art, crafting, music, dance, storytelling and sports activities and being in nature as meaningful. But to turn it into a business? That's the current status quo, isn't it?

I believe the introduction of the (for profit) business model (and thus the underlying principles, standards, norms) actually degrades the output of culturally-oriented organizations. We should, as society, collectively agree that the organizations who support a strong social fabric should not be dependent on profit-making. I see blockchain ecosystems playing an essential role here by providing consistent access to capital without explicitly requiring the production of material goods.

A community of people who are completely focused on their basic needs alone are actually a threat for the big business makers in this world. If we just feed and shelter one another and that would be all of what business in terms of money provides for it would weaken big businesses when people do not charge each other for other forms of activities.

Agreed. If society optimized the sharing economy well enough, we wouldn't need commerce.

Retention is a significant benefit. I would support a program that provided consistent SBI sponsorships, if it existed.

I was gifted quite a few SBI shares in my early days here, and they certainly encouraged me in the early going.

This is a great anecdote, and I was hoping to find it when I posted this thread. I'm also pretty frustrated by the downvote brigades. It's sad to see it happening on an ideological basis without much of a regard to the underlying intentions of the supporting ecosystem.

For the other part, I'm not sure about government sponsored UBI... more inclined to believe in some version that makes companies above a certain size liable for paying part of their savings from automation into a fund to help support workers permanents rendered jobless by automation.

This is interesting as well, and there have been discussions about a AI tax. I wonder if a social organization could be something like this, but allocate 100% of returns to the public, instead of a percentage-based tax.

Thanks for sharing, @curatorcat!

Thank you for your sincere and thoughtful responses, @erh.germany.

I would be interested in the German sources you have - and the existing UBI project you support.

The most dangerous, in my opinion, are those who want to "save the world" or the people. Such people with a lot of money do not have to seek advice, do not have to bring their decisions through committees, do not have to go through a parliament or a council in order to act.

I see this quite a bit here in America. It's an odd dynamic to witness.

Actually, a restriction would have to be built in, which would introduce an upper limit of capital in individual hands or organisations at all. Without this limit, I am afraid, inequality will continue to exist.

This is possible in a blockchain ecosystem. From a risk and security perspective, it would make sense to ensure the decentralization of capital. I wonder what Hive would look like if there was a mechanism that actively ensured a more equitable distribution of resources. I don't necessarily believe that such a function would even need to work like a tax. It could be a dedicated fund for smaller accounts with diminishing returns as the account scales.

Instead of overexploitation, the protection of species (animals and plants), instead of unhindered construction and the consumption of resources, a preservation of unused areas and habitats. Waiting and not acting would be necessary in many parts of the world where people do not have to fight for bare existence - i.e. food and water. To reduce oneself to the maximum and to reduce consumption sharply, to live from existing resources instead of always wanting to have the new.

You bright up a great point. The failure to recognize the importance of the Earth in the economic equation. We tend to think of the economy as consisting of economic actors and businesses, but we forget about the reproductive and generative environment that we all live in, and intimately depend on.

@jongolson, @preparedwombat, @a-non-e-moose, @gwilberiol, @stellabelle, @themanualbot, @sgerhart, @curatorcat, @stevescoins, @elbrava, @fredkese, @minismallholding, @steevc, @ecoinstar, @proto26, @amberyooper, @justatouchfey, @wholeself-in, @anderssinho, @ammonite, @jarunik, @chekohler, @jjprac, @reinaldoverdu, @jager567, @cwow2

Thank you for your participation. I wish I had the opportunity to respond to each of your posts.

All willing participants have been granted a 10 Hive SBI sponsorship.

@buggedout, @erh.germany received a 100 Hive SBI sponsorship for their engagement.

@no-advice, @abitcoinskeptic, and @stevescoins received a 100 Hive SBI sponsorship based on a random draw of all remaining participants.

wow 😮 thank you very much!

Damn, thanks very much!

Thank you

Thanks a lot!

Thank you for your replies.
Here is the source in German, where I donate:

https://www.mein-grundeinkommen.de/infos/in-english

My own blog is very old. Back from those times I was actively engaged. All German:

https://bedingungslosesgrundeinkommen.wordpress.com/

Yes, the dynamic is odd. Many rich people actually served as role models and left the impression that visiting poor countries and helping the poor and needy is a good thing. But it is not. Self help and self education from the natives is always the better thing, from my point of view.

Greetings!

P.S. when you type into the searching machine "bedingungsloses Grundeinkommen" you will receive many many hits.

P.P.S. I haven't thought much about UBI in the hive environment. Right now I am less concerned with block chains but more with democracy and if it will be possible to bring the recent political decisions to court...

There are no easy answers on the issue of profitmaking ... But privatizing hospitals and all facilities which provide for the care of people is not the way to go for a good mindset of citizens or communities.

I am sorry, I keep my answer short because I think we do agree in our world views.

Just did the same for a friend, the answers here helped... guess I should just wait the 2hrs

Have you considered some technical measures for Sybil resistance, like digital passports or other government issued certificates?

I do, so long as people engage. I award HSBI weekly to every participant in Punday Monday. I'd love to have both your participation and your amplification of it!

Been doing it for 151 weeks!
Here's the most recent:

https://peakd.com/contest/@improv/punday-monday-151